Ddyddedeg V Wenhwyseg

[Jashwntw]

So what are the differences here?

[Jashwntw]

I have heard gwylio pronounced gwylio and gwylo by SW speakers. This also happens to other verbs ending -io. Is it a valleys thing to shortern the -io to -o?

[Brychan]

I believe Dyfedeg is historically the dialect of North Pembrokeshire - the Demetian Dialect.
Gwenhwyseg is historically the dialect of Glamorganshire and Gwent.

Both dialects are quite distinct from standard Welsh and each other in certain aspects.

Eastern Gwenhwyseg (the valleys as distinct from Cwm Tawe and towards Dyffryn Aman) is similar to a Caernafonshire dialect in that the plural -au is pronounced as -a (llyfrau > llyfra) and words like gwasanaeth, gadael, rhywbeth are pronouced gwasanath, gatal and rwpath.

Words with a long -a sound such as tad, mab & cath would be pronouced similar to the sound in the english word fair so you get - y ted a'r meb a'r ysbryd glen. Words like caniatau, brychgau etc are similarly pronounced caniate and brychge.

The Swansea area would give you the expected Southern au -e (cadair > cater, gadael > gatel etc), and y tad a'r mab etc

Hardening of consonants (b, d, g) occurs in certain words in some circumstances, varying from area to area - gwybod (gwpod), credu (cretu), agor (acor).

Closed -o and -e in words like mochyn, gofyn, credu whereas demetian tends to use open -o and -e vowels.

I think the Welsh in Dyfed sounds much faster than that heard in glamorganshire, perhaps due to extreme contractions - bysdi vs be wetast di and sai vs wi ddim etc

[Jashwntw]

Is the use of wi and fi also divided up more or less between SW and SE?

[Brychan]

Is the use of wi and fi also divided up more or less between SW and SE?

I thought most people South of Aberystwyth used wi. I remember having a discussion with someone from Llaningel which is just up from pencader and he thought everyone used fi, so i guess you hear what you expect to hear. If Sianco wasn't of the same age-group as me, i would have put it down to the under 30 generation adopting it.

[sianco]

Is the use of wi and fi also divided up more or less between SW and SE?

I thought most people South of Aberystwyth used wi. I remember having a discussion with someone from Llaningel which is just up from pencader and he thought everyone used fi, so i guess you hear what you expect to hear. If Sianco wasn't of the same age-group as me, i would have put it down to the under 30 generation adopting it.

I'm down with the kidz, see!

As I've probably said before, lots of times, we'd always use "fi" and when we met our friend from Beulah, with a similar (but not identical) dialect, who said "wi", we thought it sounded over-correct and a bit goody-goody - but she thought we sounded baby-ish! To hear someone from the other side of Carmarthen saying "wi" is expected and doesn't sound strange.

[Brychan]

Here's a link to a tape recording, transcription and notes on the Llansawel dialect in Carmarthen which you might be interested in. The lady uses wi in this tape which is not to say she doesn't say fi as well - i don't know.

http://www.amgueddfacymru.ac.uk/cy/rhag ... llansawel/

[Jashwntw]

Is the use of wi and fi also divided up more or less between SW and SE?

I thought most people South of Aberystwyth used wi. I remember having a discussion with someone from Llaningel which is just up from pencader and he thought everyone used fi, so i guess you hear what you expect to hear. If Sianco wasn't of the same age-group as me, i would have put it down to the under 30 generation adopting it.

I'm down with the kidz, see!

As I've probably said before, lots of times, we'd always use "fi" and when we met our friend from Beulah, with a similar (but not identical) dialect, who said "wi", we thought it sounded over-correct and a bit goody-goody - but she thought we sounded baby-ish! To hear someone from the other side of Carmarthen saying "wi" is expected and doesn't sound strange.

But then didn't you say there is a dialect shift in Carmarthenshire?
The east being nearer to gwenhwyseg perhaps. Would you say fi is heard in the west, wi in the east?
I don't know, I don't live there

[Brychan]

County borders are arbitary - Brynaman, Rhydaman etc are gwentian in speech - they are border towns which linguistically share main stream characteristics of the gwentian dialect but with a pincon of the rural dialect of the favelas or slum villages and parishes of rural carmatharnshire where fi is heard instead of wi!!

[Jashwntw]

I wonder which is used most in Hendy (Whitland)

I'll have to go back one day.

I also wonder now whether the shortening of phrases like fi di... Are a rural thing. And whether you would just as equally hear wi di, rather than wi wedi.

[sianco]

Just seen a south west sentence on twitter:

"Sgrwb fory glei."

It means, "I'll probably be aching all over tomorrow after a heavy session in the gym today".