Pronunciation Practice

[Arwen]

Is this correct pronunciation for numbers 1 - 10? (South Walian)

un - in
dau - die
tri - tree
pedwar - pedooare
pump - pimp
chwech - ooeh + (gutteral ch)
saith - say+ith
wrth - oorth
daw - dow
deg - dayg

Diolch ymlaen llaw! (Thanks in advance.)

[ForumLead]

First ten numbers - I can do that!

un - I'd pronounce it een

pedwar - ped-wahrrr

saith - si-th (si as in SImon)

9 = nawr = nowr (now as in 'now')

But, better wait for Sion's official response!!!!

David

[dafydd]

Try this

1 - Un
een

2 - Dau
die

3 - Tri
tree

4 - Pedwar
ped-ooar

5 - Pump
pimp

6 - Chwech
ch'ware'ch

7 - Saith
sigh'th

8 - Wyth
oo-ith

9 - Naw
naaw

10 - Deg
dairg

[Al_Doug]

Where are those extra <i>r</i>'scoming in for 6 and 10?! It didn't sound like that on the tape!

[dafydd]

6 - Chwech
ch'wear'ch
perhaps that's better

10 - Deg
d'eh'g
and that

I pronounce ware/wear the same
and air/eh hefyd

[Sioni]

I agree with Dafydd's pronunciation guide.

I also note two mistakes:

Arwen, 'oorth' is a good pronunciation of 'wrth', but 8 in Welsh is wyth.

David, also a good pronunciation of 'nawr', but 9 in Welsh is naw.

Now write them out one hundred times.

[Arwen]

I agree with Dafydd's pronunciation guide.

I also note two mistakes:

Arwen, 'oorth' is a good pronunciation of 'wrth', but 8 in Welsh is wyth.

David, also a good pronunciation of 'nawr', but 9 in Welsh is naw.

Now write them out one hundred times.

I keep doing that don't I?

wyth
wyth
wyth
wyth
wyth
wyth
wyth
wyth
wyth
wyth X 10

[Al_Doug]

What about the other forms of 3 and 4? Help me now, are they tair (tire) and pedair (ped-ire)?

[Sioni]

What about the other forms of 3 and 4? Help me now, are they tair (tire) and pedair (ped-ire)?

Don't forget the other (feminine form) of 2 - dwy

dwy - dooee
tair - tie with a rolled 'r' on the end
pedair - ped-eye with a rolled 'r' on the end.

[Lleian]

It strikes me that trying to put the Welsh language into English spelling is a waste of time. Welsh spelling is _remarkably_ regular, and you'll be far better off learning the pronunciation rules, rather than trying to put them into sounds from your own first (or second) language.

Remembering that Welsh <u> is pronounced like <i> in most other European languages (i.e. the /i/ in 'hit' or the /i:/ in 'vino')

un is pronounced /i:n/
dau is pronounced /dau/
tri is pronounced /tri:/
pedwar is pronounced /pedwar/
pump is pronounced /pimp/

Remembering that :
<ch> is the /x/ of German 'achtung' /axtung/
<th> is the <th> of English 'thing' /thing/
<w> is the /u/ of English 'put' /put/
<y> is (here) as <i> or <u>

chwech - /xuex/
saith - /saith/
wyth - /ujth/
naw - /nau/
deg - /de:g/

Learn these simple rules and the job will be a lot simpler. In any case, the sounds of Welsh do not all exist in English, so you'll have to let go of the safety bar at some point - sooner the better!

[Hazel]

Where are those extra <i>r</i>'scoming in for 6 and 10?! It didn't sound like that on the tape!

That is my question also. I've seen more than one person say there is an 'r' sound but I don't hear it on tapes or CDs.

Now, the Bostonians know how to put 'r's in words that do not have 'r's.

[sianco]

You've come a long way since then, Arwen

As you asked for south Wales pronunciation - in case it helps someone else:

In natural speech:

2 (dau) is often pronounced "dou" - rhymes with "coy"

And the first "ch" isn't pronounced in 6 (chwech) - whech

[Siomedig]

Doesn't it depend on the dialect? I've heard 'hwech' and 'wech' from Southerners of various different stripes...

Also! In a number of dialects (in fact I'm pretty sure in the standard, too) 'chwech' becomes 'chwe' when used to modify numbers.

And you pronounce 'dau' 'dow'? South Walian dialects are pretty cool.

[sianco]

Doesn't it depend on the dialect? I've heard 'hwech' and 'wech' from Southerners of various different stripes...

Yes - I think 'whech' is more south west

Also! In a number of dialects (in fact I'm pretty sure in the standard, too) 'chwech' becomes 'chwe' when used to modify numbers.

I think "chwe + noun" is mostly in the standard language. I'd say "Mae whech cath 'da Meri"

And you pronounce 'dau' 'dow'? South Walian dialects are pretty cool.

No, I pronounce "dau" as "dou" - to rhyme with "soy" as in "soy sauce"


N

[Sionned]

That pronunciation of "dau" flies in the face of everything I've ever heard. Granted I don't live in Wales, but I've been there many times and have many friends who are native speakers. And I've never heard it pronounced anything like that!